How Giving Less Can Make You a Better Leader
Robb Holman shares insights from his book "Lessons from Abdul." Rob discusses the transformative power of receiving, drawing from personal experiences, including his wife's battle with cancer. He highlights the balance between giving and receiving, and offers practical advice for leaders to build deeper connections and enhance their personal growth.
In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we are joined by Robb Holman, an esteemed leadership coach and author of the newly released book "Lessons from Abdul: The Hidden Power of Receiving from Anyone, Anytime."
Robb shares his journey and the profound lessons he learned throughout his career. He delves into the importance of receiving and how it can transform leadership and personal growth. Through his heartfelt experiences, Robb highlights the impact of vulnerability and the balance between giving and receiving.
🎓 In this episode, Robb discusses:
The significance of shifting from always giving to learning how to receive
How personal experiences, including his wife's battle with cancer, reinforce the power of receiving support
Practical steps leaders can take to become better receivers and build deeper connections with their teams
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Robb Holman 00:00
Hurt can hold us back so think of someone you know time in your life not you persona if you want to go there Chris you can certainly do that too but like think of a time in your life where maybe you did it could have been when you were a child could have been young adulthood could be now as an adult right working professional where you did open yourself up to receive and you were hurt by someone burns you lack of trust. So what can happen is her can hold us back and then compound on it over the years. So all of a sudden someone comes and wants to give you something it can be very difficult and challenging to receive and receive very deeply so we have this barrier up that it kind of bounces off ah
Chris Rainey 00:41
Robb, welcome back to the show. How are you my friend? Oh, my
Robb Holman 00:44
goodness, this is this has been just knowing you, Chris and knowing that I'm gonna be back on your podcast, a total thrill and joy doing well some personal challenges, which will certainly touch on later but so happy to be back on with you
Chris Rainey 00:58
love it, man. You always, um, like you always bring in an energy but I'm like, how do you sustain that? Is it always this high? Or is there also equally low lows?
Robb Holman 01:07
Great question have to ask my wife and kids, I think that they would say that is on the go from like, 530 in the morning, nine at night. And then I crashed but good. Labor not crisp, believe it or not. As much as I love people. I like to get so myself an extrovert of extroverts. And I'm energized by people. I'm energized by purpose driven things, ideas, businesses, etc. What I'm most energized by in this season is time alone in reflection. And someone say Well, Rob, hold on. I thought you're energized because that's what extroverts do. They're energized by people and all these things you just mentioned more. And I'm like, yes. But I've learned to appreciate the silence, the contemplation, because I find that in that, that there's a still small voice that begins to rise up, not focused on what I shouldn't be doing, and all the ways that I'm doing things or I could be doing things differently. But speaking to who I am, who I'm designed to be and where I'm heading, and talking about in a place like that coming out of that energize like never before. Dude,
Chris Rainey 02:18
we have so much in common. Like if you asked my wife like and what I do, she will say I have like a cabin at the end of the garden, just like an office slash gym slash kind of safe space. And that's what I do. I go there to like, just be alone, quiet, reflect and it's my idea is it's it's the way I reenergized and I come out of that reenergized and people don't get it to let go at some that's my favorite thing is actually just having quiet and just silence and space to really think and reflect. Which is hard in this day and age where you're always on wherever it's you know, your Slack or your teams or your email or your LinkedIn messages just too much as well. So I love that. Well, firstly, congratulations on the new book. I know it is today or yesterday. Yesterday was
Robb Holman 03:06
yesterday. Yeah, I can't believe it. It was three years in the making total passion project. This was my fourth book. Chris, it's the launch just snuck up on me. Because you know, you know how it is like any idea creative idea from the inception, from the genesis of it all. to its completion, it can be a while there's a lot of grinding, there's a lot of things you have to do. So all of a sudden, I was like, oh my goodness launch days getting real quick, just a couple of days before and came about yesterday. And it was absolutely unbelievable. Yeah, so
Chris Rainey 03:40
book is called Lessons from Abdal. The hidden power of receiving from anyone, anytime. Firstly, tell us a bit about the name as well, like there's a lot behind that. I know. Yeah.
Robb Holman 03:54
Abdul was Childhood Mentor, some would say a very unconventional mentor. We had very little in common from on surface. And what I mean by that, Chris, you know, I met him on the basketball court and he was coaching. He was in the gym, I was getting ready to play a basketball game. So I was right outside the main doors of the main gym. I was about 10 years old. And you know, like most kids getting ready for their game to be played. They're waiting for the one before them to end. So I'm like peeking in like who's playing and I hear this loud, booming voice voice I'd never heard before. I was like, whoa, this person has my attention. Well, it turned out when the game concluded in my game, and I came into the gym with all the other kids getting ready to play. I was like, where's the source of this loud voice and I look around, look around, couldn't find it. And finally, he was still yelled even after the game. And I look around I see the source and the source was this middle aged man who was African American, who wore old kind of grungy clothes. And I was like, I don't have a whole lot in common with this with this guy. But certainly he loves by his screaming and yelling and his passion behind the game of basketball. And I love basketball as well. Anyway, long story short, I inquired about him through other people in the gym that day and subsequent days to find out more about him. And if we already didn't have a lot in common outside of the game of basketball, you know, I was 10, he was around 40. He's African American, I'm white. He was part of the working class, a middle to upper class he had, he's Muslim, I'm Christian. And, but something intrigued me about him not only to he looked different than I was, but I don't know, I was drawn to him because of his love for the game that I loved and adored and still do today. And that's basketball. And that sparked a relationship where we actually played I played for him for a number of years. And that is Abdul, his name is Abdul and the lessons in the book lessons from Abdul are 10 transformative life and leadership lessons that I learned from him. But Chris, let me just be real with you for a second. Like, this man, although so different than I was, he had so much to give. But yet I had didn't even realize it at the time as a 10 year old. I need to position a posture myself to learn from someone who is radically different than I was. Thus the hidden power of receiving from anyone at any time.
Chris Rainey 06:42
Wow. Why now? Because you don't see this as a story from when your childhood did this resurface recently? Oh, you know, of recent in the recent years, where you like, that made you something, something happened, it made me reflect on that. And fourthly, to some lessons, I would love to transfer on. Interesting
Robb Holman 06:58
question, you know, as anyone has in their life, life milestones, significant life milestones, you know, for example, like a birth of your first child or a big career milestone, you started your first business, you get that job promotion, whatever was so different in my life. And I think now at age 48, although Chris, I'm sure you would agree, I look, maybe
Chris Rainey 07:21
I listened. I was a bit shocked when he said that. Looking good, man, whatever you doing this fucking,
Robb Holman 07:27
I'm totally having fun. But no, thank you for your encouraging, we got to hang out a little longer. All right. But like any life milestones, I think as you continue to live life, and the challenges and the blessings of life. And it goes back to earlier part of the conversation where we both love to reflect and take time to soak things in. You know, I just find myself maybe because I'm knocking on the door at age 50, that I'm finding myself, those times a reflection are getting richer, they're becoming deeper. And one of the things that is coming out of those times, are honoring those that have gone before me. honoring those mentors, those leaders, those managers, those family members, those influencers in my life, that have made such a rich deposit, Abdul has been one of those unique, intimate and powerful people in my life. And so for me, it's a way to giving back to him and his family. To say thank you.
Chris Rainey 08:27
Oh, wow. It's it's a real token of gratitude.
Robb Holman 08:32
juris, yeah. Because I think, you know, in the rat race of life, as we move forward, you and I know you just alluded to this a few minutes ago, how fast life can move, and just trying to even keep up with it. And I don't think I know, I haven't done a good enough job. And I don't think the average person, dare I say leaders done a good enough job with truly, truly honoring and respecting those that have gone before us. You know, I once heard of put like this, you probably heard it put like this, as well as all the listeners, that those that have paved the way their ceiling becomes our floor. I love that. And so yes, we can walk into certain advancements in leadership and life based on the work that others that have gone before us have done, but then I also now step into this with an ease but also even a greater responsibility to take it even further. And so I really want to be a really good steward of what's been entrusted my care and the people behind that as well.
Chris Rainey 09:34
Now, love it. Before we get into lessons. Could you discuss sort of the interplay between giving and receiving because it's very intentional about obviously the power of receiving? Yeah,
Robb Holman 09:45
so I'm going to use an illustration and perhaps you've heard this before the those listening have heard this before too, but I think it's very timely and very applicable crest, and a man that was in a great flood and the flood I'm He was coming to full force upon the earth, he cries out to God, his creator and says, Would you please save me, you've saved me. And shortly after that prayer, that conversation with God, a person on a canoe comes before you know goes right by him. Now at this point, he's on a second third story, and the floods coming in, and the person that can use it hop aboard, hop aboard, and he denies them and he goes, No, no, no, no, I'm cool. I'm cool. Everything's gonna be alright. God's got me. Shortly after that, a boat with team members, multiple team members on there to rescue him. Come on, man. The floods common you know how much longer you gotta hop aboard your times now? No, no, no. I prayed. God's got me. He'll save me everything's gonna be cool. Then shortly after that, third and final helicopter comes. You can imagine the wind picking up with the propellers and everything like that. Come on, man. This is your last chance. This is it. You're gonna die. You got to hop aboard. And he waved him off said no, no, I'll be good. I'll be good. Tragically, the man drowns. He dies. He meets God and heaven. And he says to God, why didn't you saved me? And God said, I tried to three times, through your neighbors through your friends through your fam, I tried three times and you denied you denied you deny. See, Chris the point and all this. Many leaders exhaust themselves and selfless service. And it's notable, it's admirable, it's praiseworthy, right. But if everyone in the world, all the leaders and all the people are giving who would be left to truly receive everyone we're given. So for me, not only that story, but really lessons from Abdul, the hidden power of receiving for anyone from any time has everything to do with a needed balance, brought to the both giving and receiving. It's a genuine exchange of true humanity that needs to be brought back. So I clearly highlight in the book the need to receive and I'm not talking about taking. We've all we all know there's
Chris Rainey 12:17
takers. And what's the difference between?
Robb Holman 12:20
Yeah, I've you kind of taking as like, out to manipulate people circumstances for your greater game. Ultimately, see receiving in the most genuine and authentic aspects of who we are. There's a purity with it. There's a simplicity about it.
Chris Rainey 12:40
That's the vulnerability.
Robb Holman 12:43
There's a few major vulnerability
Chris Rainey 12:44
Well, Sam mentioned leaders, right. They don't want to officers, they don't want to feel vulnerable. They
Robb Holman 12:50
don't, because I think that many leaders are afraid of, if they lead even a compliment or praise soak in too long, they might get a bigger head than what they might already have. Or, or perhaps they deflect certain things, because they're afraid of what that what comes with that. And I can even allude to that and unpack that in a little bit. But I find to crest that receiving in the most authentic, vulnerable sense. It lands in three different buckets, okay. receiving praise or compliments, receiving help or support, or receiving unique perspectives, or even opinions. And I think many people, many leaders are threatened by a deep receiving because of what comes with it, they
Chris Rainey 13:51
did it. Is that sometimes just an assumption No. Or does it always something come with it? No,
Robb Holman 13:57
I think I think it most I think in most cases, something does come with it. But there's barriers that hold us back in knowing what to do what comes with it. But a lot of barriers aren't on the exterior. They're not on the outside. They're more of the barriers within.
Chris Rainey 14:10
I got it. Yeah, like that's why I said the vulnerability part. Because there's times where I haven't wanted to receive something because in order to receive I have to be vulnerable.
Robb Holman 14:20
You do, right? I'll even put it like this, right. If one's constantly giving Guess who's in control that process
Chris Rainey 14:30
the person giving, the person giving.
Robb Holman 14:34
When we receive and we learn how to posture our hearts to genuinely receive and receive vulnerable and vulnerable ways. We don't feel nearly as
Chris Rainey 14:46
in control as churches that is a sense of the
Robb Holman 14:48
average person leader
Chris Rainey 14:50
we love to be. Yeah, that's so interesting. So lack of control is one of the next question was in the last few years. What are the challenges of leaders when it comes to offensive receiving lack of control. It is. Yeah, it is.
Robb Holman 15:04
That's that's one I list that seven in the book.
Chris Rainey 15:07
I don't mind some of that ones. Yeah, well, somebody, yeah. Hurt,
Robb Holman 15:11
can hold us back. So think of someone you know time in your life, not you persona. If you want to go there, Chris, you can certainly do that too. But like, think of a time in your life where maybe you did it could have been when you were a child could have been young adulthood could be now as an adult, right? working professional, where you did open yourself up to receive and you were hurt by someone burns you lack of trust. So what can happen is hurt can hold us back and then compound on it over the years. So all of a sudden, someone comes and wants to give you something, it can be very difficult and challenging to receive and receive very deeply. So we have this barrier up that it kind of bounces off off. And we list we know all the right phrases to use when someone comes to give. Hey, thanks, but or you know what, I don't really need help right now. But you know what I've come to you if I really need help down the line, you see. So we all have these words and phrases that have become default mechanisms. So we don't have to go down the road of that genuine and authentic receiving. So we already talked about letting go of control her can hold us back. How about this? The paradox, as I like to call it the paradox of closeness? Do you have a team member that you're pretty close with a partner, a spouse, a friend and neighbor, but you've almost become too familiar with them, and they become too familiar with you. I have found that the closest people to us on planet Earth can be the most difficult to receive from
Chris Rainey 16:48
Oh, yeah. Because Oh, I love this because it's harder. Because you because you you care about that person and respect them. So it makes it even more difficult. And also, if they think less of you, or if it's negative, then you feel even more Hmm. Right? Because that's the person you care about the most.
Robb Holman 17:10
Yeah. Oh, I should I should have co written this book.
Chris Rainey 17:15
Also, yeah. Oh, so
Robb Holman 17:16
add on to it, too. Yes, and amen to everything you said, as relates to the paradox of closeness. However, really close people to us, don't we also know their quirks, their idiosyncrasies, the things that drive us up the wall. So all of a sudden, let's say you're in a point of tension, that relationship and there comes a need that you have to receive from them. And if there's tension in that relationship, based on what you already know, a little bit of backdrop over the background? Maybe they pushed your buttons in certain ways. Is it that easy to receive from them, especially in a heightened season? Tension? Yeah, probably not. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 17:52
I try. I try. And you kind of made me reflect on Shane and I's relationship, because we grew up as childhood friends, and we're still working together and people was like, how do you separate your friendship and, and your business relationship as co founders? And I never thought about this. And so this conversation is massively down to our ability to receive from each other. Yeah, yeah. I didn't really think about that, again, because we can put ego to one side, we can just, we have we know each other so deeply that whatever he's saying, I know it's coming from a good place. That's right. Even if I disagree, and I feel hurt by it. I know that he would only have said it if he really wanted to help me or the business, etc. Does that make sense? So I didn't really fall by for receiving it go. Yeah, from that perspective, that's why it works. Yeah. And
Robb Holman 18:48
I'll just I'll maybe say one more very quickly. And again, there's more obviously in the book where I lay out seven in greater detail, but the other one has to do more with receiving unique perspectives and opinions. Now you and I don't have to look far and wide to know in politics, whether it's us abroad, UK doesn't matter, right politics, entertainment sports, to dig her heels in deep when we believe something like core convictions of the heart which are good to have, okay, it can be a business owner can be a leader of a team that has a vision in the playoffs a certain be a certain way. And anyone else that has a different set of opinions relating to that vision or the strategy of that are the implementation. They can be easily become a threat unless we're careful about okay, I call this this is I call it the path of least resistance is an obstacle. Okay? So the average person and even a leader that we love to hang with people to validate our own opinions and thoughts. I think it's an part of normal part of human nature, right? When they think the way I think I read books that are in alignment with what I believe and listen to podcasts, oh, it's just great. But the moment someone On opposes your viewpoint and kind of rattle some feathers of yours based on a unique angle, a thought provoking comment, maybe a story that they share that just like that's not my experience and let me tell you why, you know, that all of a sudden, a lot a lot with that. And not only do we have to learn how to get along, we need to learn to appreciate you Newton unique perspective. See Abdul and I came from two different kind of worlds, two different cultures, two different ways of life. But one of the beautiful things about Abdul even with unique opinions and thoughts, is he built a culture. That was fun. He really built a culture that was fun cress and what that did was it I fused any tension that was there with different thoughts and opinions pertaining to the game of basketball pertaining to stories of life to pertaining to where we came from, and the effect the impact that had on our lives. And one of the very practical things that he did that I still love to today, he gave us all nicknames. And these are nicknames that were playful and fun that kind of fit who we are. I'm sure you probably will and your seat right now Chris along with everyone else.
Chris Rainey 21:17
Exactly. Exactly. What was it?
Robb Holman 21:20
So he called me Greyhound after the doll. I'm like, All right. Now I've grown to be 6464 and a half. I'm long, like a great, I'm thin. I'm long, but I'm fast. I'm quick. He knew on the basketball court. Not only did I look the part of a Greyhound, but he knew that I could make quick decisions, that I was a leader at heart that on that basketball court, he saw me as a captain as a leader, that in gametime decisions on the basketball court when decision need to be made, Neville was looking what are we going to do? He knew that Rob could make like real time decisions in a very short period of time. But see, it was his way of building a culture with all these differences. Because let me just tell you a made up on this team. I already mentioned our unique differences. I mean, even different ethnicities, there was Asian and there was Hispanic, there's white, there was African American, all different walks of life that reflected both him and I in our relationship as well. But one of the practical things that he did, he made things fun and built up a culture to where we could all relate, share in life sharing stories. And basketball gave us that amazing opportunity to do so.
Chris Rainey 22:33
I was thinking, firstly, call nickname. Boss like, Well, how do we translate that into the workplace? Because obviously, we can't start giving people nicknames might not go down well, in the workplace. So how are you? How have you translated that into some practical things that we could do? In the workplace or as leaders? Yeah.
Robb Holman 22:53
And this comes out to one of the lessons that Abdul taught me to help overcome so the some of those barriers were not receiving well, is let's be committed to have more meals together. There's something real powerful. And listen, there's story upon story, statistic data, you know, statistical data research that backs up like when we share not just professional stories with each other. But personal stories. That's when we can actually set ourselves up for greater success in the both giving and receiving and sharing some stories. And I think we best do that over meals. Chris, the maybe I'm just, maybe I just love eating. I don't know what it is.
Chris Rainey 23:36
Right? Yeah, yeah. I'm
Robb Holman 23:38
a foodie. But we would have times our family invite Abdul over to our house. And I think even in the professional realm, and world, we can go down to the cafeteria, we can take each other out to a local place to eat, right? And I'm all for those things, for sure. Anything that's going to promote both the giving and receiving exchange that I'm talking about? And the sharing of stories and even personal stories, but how about inviting someone to your house? Oh, you had to go there. And Rob. I know so many leaders are already doing that. But all of a sudden, you open yourself up in a completely different way. Having said Now, again, I understand some of the geographical differences and stuff like that, right? So we can kind of take this in the virtual world and have fun with it a little bit. What's that mean? Having a virtual cup of coffee and stuff, but I'm even saying geographically for a moment. What does it look like? What would it look like opening up your house and inviting people to come in from the workplace more so than you ever have before. There's a certain vulnerability when people step foot in your home, how you organize your house, the food that you make the world welcome you provide. And we did that with Abdul. And Abdul did that with us did that with me. And over a meal inviting invite into each other's home over a course of two hours, three hours, four hours. As you can help, or better get to know the stories, what make up people and who they truly are. And so I think that's one of the things Abdul really stressed to me and so many others, he came across the power and the importance of getting together over a meal and sharing story. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 25:17
I love that man, one of the things I used to do in the workplace is once, once a month, everyone, we had a very multicultural team. And every once a month, we'll do a team meal where it will be in the office, but everyone would bring food that represents their cultural heritage. So we had we had Indian food, Chinese food, or English food, kind of, and we'd all feast together. And it'll be like, Oh, my auntie made this, you know, and these are the lamps and motors that AJ would bring in. I still remember it, you know, right now, right. And to your point, I would also, I'll do that quite a lot when we had, especially when we had new people joining the team, because it was a great way to bring them into the team and kind of have those conversations with Shane. And I often invite the team to barbecues, stuff like that. And literally next week, Friday, we're going out as a team for a meal on a Friday night just to go have a good meal together and have some fun. So I definitely agree those things are, obviously we're doing less than less of that now, because of hybrid work. Sure, you know, where you can or you know, even if it's once or twice a year, is really important to build those relationships beyond the workplace. Sure
Robb Holman 26:32
is, I applaud you, I applaud you and your team for doing that. Because I find that so many teams want to so many leaders want to lead their team in that way. But the demand and the grind and the responsibilities, the projects at hand, they can easily get consumed in that. So all of a sudden, maybe their intention was to do something like that once a month, or even once a year for that matter. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, they're like, Oh, my goodness, I haven't done it for a couple years. I haven't done it for a few months since I
Chris Rainey 27:00
was made by the way, that was me. So I literally switched to my EA and other Lisa, we haven't been out. We used to do it monthly. And then last like maybe three or four months, we haven't done anything. And it just, it just hit me isn't because we had a new, a few new hires starting I was like, why have we? Why have we not been out together? And it was like, well, we've just been so busy. And I was like, oh, we can't afford not to do that. Because it's because of those relationships that are formed during those times that people will go above and beyond for each other. And true should be there for each other because they've built those relationships. So you can't really can't afford not to do those things. Yeah, yeah.
Robb Holman 27:36
No, no, I was just gonna say, you know, the temptation, I think that all of us each and all of us fall under, is in intense seasons and times. And I appreciate your vulnerability crests, I'll put two hands up with me on that too. Because there's times I do a better job than others and this, so but the temptation is, is that when times are more intense, is I'll get around to doing the things that were most meaningful. When I get to breathe a little easier. When in actuality, we need to do more of that thing, not last hundreds during the intense times, because that's what's going to help not just only get us through, but the relationships are going to be sustainable during coming out of and then certainly in the long term because of it we're trust is built and fostered in a very short period of time. And so I think it's like everything else that's good, right begins with a level of awareness whether we've done it before we haven't done it, we want to increase it a little bit more to where there's some level of accountability we have within those team dynamics to see those things through. And I never learned this best, Chris, that when I don't know if you knew this, I've been over to Afghanistan a number of times. And I would take teams, you know, I teach at public and private universities in Afghanistan, my inside out leadership philosophy. And it also helped the game of basketball develop over there as well go figure with me. I have to I have to get basketball in as well. But one of the things I learned from my friends in Afghanistan very quickly, my first trip was back in 2007. And then three other subsequent trips since then, was hospitality. You know, there's certainly a lot the West can learn from the east and a lot the East can learn from the West, one of the things I certainly learned was, what a gift my friends were and continue to be in the area of hospitality in the East. And when they do a meal with you, you know, in the West, you know, I'll speak specifically in the US like a lunch break is an hour that's all you get with your people. And then you get like that hour. Well, in the east, man, no, extend that to a half day sometimes. And they'll literally over lunch, but we're completely aside. Move everything away. And maybe an hour or two quickly turns into three, four or five hours of just kind of reclining at the table with each other And truly sharing stories and getting to know each other. Because they know in the very fabric of their being Greek because they view so much in life holistically where we in the West, this is no bad. We can put things in file folders, categorical nature, very black and white that way, compartmentalize. But the East they think of things holistically. So by default and that holistic kind of a heart mind. They're thinking, Yeah, I'll put work aside because I know work will get done and trust is built and fostered. And it'll get done in an efficient, effective manner that we never have otherwise. So I've been greatly encouraged by just not just the discipline of hospitality, but to slowly but surely live a lifestyle of it. And it can change Business Cultures, it could change family dynamics, neighborhoods, communities, etc. So it's pretty cool.
Chris Rainey 30:49
Well, some of us I love that. And I think sometimes we've over engineered and systemize it, we removed some of the humanity of it, right? Really random story, but like, I actually had one of my team members spend Christmas with us one time, and all of the other leaders and even my own CEO in the previous company was like, Why? Why are you doing that? I saw is a really strange thing, as well. He doesn't have any family here. In the UK. He's going to be alone. During Christmas. Yeah. So he can come spend Christmas. Yeah, and I'd never had someone who's more, you know, hardworking and loyal. Not I didn't do it for that. Just to be clear. I did it. I did it because it was the right thing to do. I felt like it was the right thing to do. And my mom was like, Hey, I'm so cool. Great to have someone else over as well. But yeah, like, first, I remember being looked at by other managers and the CEO and the company like I was crazy. How can you do that? Yeah. I was like, why is that strange? That I? You know, so tons of fraud out there? What, what are some practical things that we can do to be better at receiving?
Robb Holman 32:03
Yeah. So I think number one, it's be aware of one or more of the things that could be holding you back, we discussed just a few minutes ago. What are what are some of your barriers, your primary? What's your primary barrier holding you back? Right? Because we know, you know, anything with great power, you know, comes with that awareness piece. So we have to be aware of that or those areas, for sure. Second, be mindful of the phrases, the words or the phrases that we use, you use I use that become default mechanisms, when people come to you and say, Hey, do you need help? Or hey, I have an idea I want to share with you. Or, you know, Hey, you did a great job on this specific project. I just want to let you know. What did we say by default? That holds us back from receiving so we got to note number one, what does hold us back there's barriers. And secondly, the phrases in the words that we use that deflect, been from genuinely authentically receiving. So just list them out. I was encouraged to just list them out. Like, okay, someone comes to you, and they just want to compliment you. I
Chris Rainey 33:20
was speaking to earlier by the way, I've got a couple of friends that are really bad at receiving compliments. I was thinking about. And they always say they always say the same things. You're right.
Robb Holman 33:28
Yeah. So what are those? What are those words? What are those phrases, just jot them down so we become more aware of them. So we become aware of the barriers we become more aware of the phrases now? How about even in a time of reflection, Chris, we're coming full circle, you go to certain places that you reflect I go to certain place or places that I reflect. So I'm assuming that those listening also have their place or places that they go, if not, please go to those places on a regular basis, you're going to be so much better for it and your heart and soul. Assuming that you have a place or places you go. Think back of a time or times plural, where you didn't receive well. And this isn't a time of condemnation or guilt or innocence stop and like you got to know but I think it's okay to feel maybe even a little regret like you know, I this person said this, I deflected it. I didn't let it soak and I didn't appreciate it fully. So in a sense by doing so. They wanted to bless me and I put a hand up to their blessing. And feeling that sometimes isn't bad at all. It's actually a part of just who we are in reflection, so we can be better coming out of it. So we don't have to miss those moments nearly as much in the future. So again, become aware of what's holding you back. Second, what are the words or phrases we use by default third acknowledged specific moments when you may have fallen short and receiving for Earth? How about this? How about the next time someone says something to you again, or wants to give you something falling in those three buckets we mentioned before, pause three seconds before you respond. I just let us have three seconds there. What those three seconds will do, it will at least give the opportunity and the invitation for you to receive a little differently, a little deeper than you ever had before. And then lastly, number five, within 24 hours after that interaction, spent a time and deep reflection about it. What did you do? Well, in that receiving, what didn't you do so well, that really encouraged people when they go down that road of there's five practical things, my goodness, Kress, slowly but surely, you're gonna set yourself up for being a much better receiver. Because here's what happens. We can only give what we have received. So if we want to be a more selfless giver, guess what position posture yourself to be a better receiver. And you're going to be able to give more selflessly and more greatly and more powerfully in and out of that place, for sure. And that's what Abdul showed me. He was a man of genuine, selfless service, because he knew, regardless of where he was in life, there was always a deeper well within himself, of receiving, so he could always give what he had received.
Chris Rainey 36:39
Did I love that man? And I'm assuming like any of these things, repetition of doing that, those those things you just mentioned, because you're gonna start to catch yourself, right saying those things and catch us off in a moment, but like, no. Oh, take it. Take your free seconds. Chris received this, process it then because sometimes we can jump to conclusions, right knee jerk reaction to it and our knee jerk reaction is normally to defense mechanism, put the hand up immediately, right. So if we take those three seconds to process what we've just received, then we're going to be a lot better at being able to
Robb Holman 37:18
Well, Chris, it's like you and your breakdancing. Alright.
Chris Rainey 37:22
Bring up old school days. All right. To
Robb Holman 37:25
bring this back episodes I came on. We did talk about your breakdancing heartbreak dancer. So I had to I had to share a little bit of this with you, but it's almost like breakdancing. Okay, now, you stay with a little bit more than I do. I used to be a breakdancer back in the day. I can't say that anymore. But you and I know whether it's breakdancing. It's singing. It's a musical instrument. It's a sport that you play. If you want to be proficient, if you want to be elite at anything, if you want to be better, more effective, more efficient, whatever the case may be. It's all about repetition.
Chris Rainey 38:01
Amen. I use basketball as my analogy for that. Like, I spent an entire summer teaching myself how to play basketball. And I was there for like, you know, six, seven weeks, every single day, from the moment the sun came up. I was like, shoot and shoot and shoot. And by the end of the summer, I couldn't miss a shot. And I went to the tryouts and I got into team. And I use that all the time. And I asked like, what are you really good at Ball school? I was like, No, I'm not really good. I just done 1000s and 1000s of reps. Same with dancing, saying with skateboarding. Same with business. Same with sales, made 1000s 10s of 1000s, probably in the last 15 years phone calls. And are you really good at every like, no, no, it's I was willing to do more reps than other people. That's all it is. You hear about Kobe Bryant right used to come out before everyone else like a couple hours right before before the warm up absolute shots before the warm up. This is you know, just to even know even even when they get to that elite level is even more important that they do as well. Listen before they go because I can talk to you forever parting piece of advice for everyone. And where can they grab a copy of the book and reach out to you if they want to work with you as well. And
Robb Holman 39:20
I appreciate that, could I share it I'll keep this tight Chris a personal story really enclosing and then I'll let everyone know maybe where they can go and get the book and stuff. So all these lessons that Abdul share with me that I share with you during this conversation and that are all in the book. Have never prepared me more than what I'm currently going through on the personal front and I want to be really open and honest with you Chris and everyone listening. My wife just about six months ago was diagnosed with a very aggressive and treatable form of breast cancer. When the diagnosis came, there was a lot of uncertainty with how aggressive this cancer truly was. was probably about a month of uncertainty. But when we did get some level of certainty little did we know that would be the most challenging season of our entire lives. We've been married, it'll be 20 years in May, three kids 1513 and eight. And my wife went through after what she was diagnosed a very aggressive, intense four month chemo plan. She finally rang the bell for those that don't know ring the bell is when at the conclusion of your chemotherapy, whether it's a few sessions or a few months obsessions, it's a celebration, your last day, your final treatment day of all the you endured your courageous spirit, all that have gone before you with cancer, they've gone through something similar, some that have died prematurely. And also kind of as you ring that bell and celebration, it's like your heart remains with those that continue to go through it all at the same time. My wife concluded that day, with just a major applause of all the nurses that were in that building, taking care of her for so many months along with myself and my my mother in law, she then takes a month off, and she just completed two weeks ago major surgery to six week recovery. But Chris, what I really wanted to end on was one of these exchanges with my wife that I think really ties a bow on everything you and I have been talking about. And it speaks to one thing when we learn how to receive and receive really well. And in and out of that place we learn to give to other people this genuine exchange of both giving and receiving what can happen. It was a second chemo treatment with my wife. And we were in the thick of things. She was in a lot of pain, I was by her side in the treatment center. There were no words spoken this particular time with my wife, we just look in each other's eyes, hold hands without one word. And we both begin to cry together. And the tears pick up from the depth of our heart. And just more and more tears just streaming down our face. This genuine authentic connection for almost 20 years, really 22 years since we we knew each other. And little did I know in that moment, I'll be it's silent. That there were words spoken to us from heart to heart. And here's what those words were. And we later found out everything that we've been through in life have gotten us to this place that we had learned to receive Abdul's lessons and the lessons from so many other people that have helped transform our life that we posture ourselves to receive and receive and receive. But it was only to prepare us to receive even more deeply than ever before in this season. Because we couldn't do a whole lot. We were helpless. We were certainly anchored in our faith. We knew we had a wonderful support system of friends, families, doctors, church, family, etc. But we needed to learn the power of receiving like never before. And let me just tell you, it's come true. The road to recovery is far from over for us. But my wife and our family are on the road to recovery, in large part because we've learned the hidden power of receiving from anyone at any time. And because we have received deeply, we know there'll be a time a season that's coming, where we get through this. And we will be able to even give more selflessly to a greater degree with those that have given to us richly. So I wanted to share that with you and everyone listening because that's we're in the thick of things right now. But we're living a life filled with hope and encouragement, based on what we've where we've been and where we're going. So wanted to share that with you. Wow,
Chris Rainey 43:50
man. Well, firstly, thank you for sharing that it's so powerful. And you live that right? You went through it together. And it's hard, especially in those in those times to be vulnerable, like we discussed earlier, right? Where you kind of feel helpless, but it's even more important to receive from your friends, family, the hospital, etc. And wow, yeah. Obviously, wish your wife a speedy recovery as well. And I've like sometimes you go through those things and that some powerful moments happen that come out of it. And this book and the work you're talking about is one of those right? You didn't expect to do this. You didn't plan to do that right? But now it perfectly encapsulated everything we've been talking about. So I'm glad you took the time to share it. I appreciate it.
Robb Holman 44:43
Now you're so welcome. I'm honored to be on your show. Thank you so much. I you'd asked earlier like maybe a couple of websites or Yeah, reach you
Chris Rainey 44:51
because you've worked with so many great teams and for what HR leaders are listening right now, Rob does an incredible work both virtually and in person. I've seen both as well with leaders and teams, so where can they grab a copy of that book? And where can they connect with you? Yeah, I
Robb Holman 45:05
think good centralized place to connect with me is to find out more about me too. It's just my personal website, which is Rob holman.com. I love LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. So feel free to send me a message with a question a comment, connect with me on there as well. As far as the books concerned lessons from Abdul, you know, Amazon's the best place right now. It's going to be distributed distributors all over the globe in a very short period of time. But Amazon right now is the best way. So just lessons from Abdul it's available on paperback, hardback and also ebook or Kindle version that way. And lessons from abdool.com For further information as well, Chris, thanks so much. Amazing,
Chris Rainey 45:43
man. I know it's always gonna be a great conversation when we connect and have you on the show and super excited to get this into everyone's hands. As always, everyone, wherever you're listening or watching right now, there'll be a link in description, all of those links that were just mentioned. Apart from that, man, I wish you all the best and I look forward to doing it again soon.
Robb Holman 46:00
Yeah, looking forward to break dancing with you sooner than later. No, maybe
Chris Rainey 46:03
we should just stick to basketball. Again, too old for
Robb Holman 46:08
funny I use a breakdancing illustration, use a basketball illustration. We're meeting in the middle here. Wonderful,
Chris Rainey 46:12
perfect way to wrap up, man. Thanks so much. You bet. Thank
Robb Holman 46:15
you. We'll see
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Guy Kawasaki, author and host of the Remarkable People podcast.